A
Uh-huh.
B
-- can give you idea of the character of the school. Uh, whether you, you know, in one sense, whether you've got a spirit of innovation and excellence or whether you've got a, a spirit of, somewhat unkind, but --
A
Uh-huh.
B
-- producing graduates.
A
Yeah.
B
Uh, you know, as sort of some development and some training, uh, like it's easy enough to crank out graduates, but to really challenge them --