A
Uh-huh.
B
B I R D?
A
Right.
B
Yeah, he published a paper, uh, couple of years ago, I think, didn't he, well, one that I read. Does he publish a little, quite a bit?
A
Uh, somewhat and he has, he has some like different programs out, like I don't know what they're called, but they're like, and he has like little ani-, stuffed animals with them and --
B
Uh-huh.