B
The one I use, uh, of course, for mostly, only for business purposes is, uh, you know, American Express.
A
Right.
B
And, uh, I'm not I'm not terribly in favor of them. Not for my own personal, uh, point of view.
A
Right.
B
Plus it, uh, has, you know, from an economic point of view it has increased our debt --
A
Yeah.