A
Uh-huh, yeah, and especially if you, if you don't feel you're handling it quite right --
B
Yeah.
A
-- or that somebody might make fun of you or that it would be,
B
But I think the, the average American is probably pretty heavily in debt. Not, not including like a mortgage. A mortgage is an understandable debt --
A
Uh-huh.
B
-- because that's, you have, you have to have a roof over your head.